Bread for beginner?
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
No, a bread maker is not need.
Use my Rustic Italian Bread recipe & divide it as needed. Also,Mr Yan also has one...General toasting bread that will work for you. It's drop dead simple.
Making the actual bread takes so little time... mostly it's just the waiting for the dough to rise & then proof (rise again) after forming the loaf. However, if you want a bread machine & are willing to pay for the shipping, I'll send it to you.
Use my Rustic Italian Bread recipe & divide it as needed. Also,Mr Yan also has one...General toasting bread that will work for you. It's drop dead simple.
Making the actual bread takes so little time... mostly it's just the waiting for the dough to rise & then proof (rise again) after forming the loaf. However, if you want a bread machine & are willing to pay for the shipping, I'll send it to you.
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- Thread starter
- #3
Sam I should have known you'd have the answers I'm looking for 
Both seem fairly simple and something I'd like to try. @Mr_Yan's calls for whole wheat, would a normal grocery store like Krogers carry this or would I need to go some place like Whole Foods?
As for the bread makers. If I can make "everyday" and other breads without a maker what benefit does a dedicated machine give me?
Both seem fairly simple and something I'd like to try. @Mr_Yan's calls for whole wheat, would a normal grocery store like Krogers carry this or would I need to go some place like Whole Foods?
As for the bread makers. If I can make "everyday" and other breads without a maker what benefit does a dedicated machine give me?
Most grocery stores will carry whole wheat flour, at least every place I've ever lived.
The only benefit of a machine is that it is pretty much automated once you get it ready & hit the start button.
The only benefit of a machine is that it is pretty much automated once you get it ready & hit the start button.
M
Mr_Yan
Guest
The actual recipe I started with was all white flour and I blended in some whole wheat because that is what we like. I can't even reference the recipe for you because my mom took that cook book back.
I got the stand mixer to do the kneading for bread. Once you're weighing the ingredients most of the time and cleanup is reduced to just kneading and one bowl. With two adults and two toddlers eating bread we're going through about 3 loafs a week. I can generally make a loaf of bread after work without staying up late.
If you start making bread often look at getting yeast in the jar or vacuum packed foil brick as it's far cheaper than packets.
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Looking at my recipe linked above is rather amusing as it is rather different than what I am making now.
440 g water
6 g yeast
6 g salt
27 - 35 g sugars
660 g flour
I got the stand mixer to do the kneading for bread. Once you're weighing the ingredients most of the time and cleanup is reduced to just kneading and one bowl. With two adults and two toddlers eating bread we're going through about 3 loafs a week. I can generally make a loaf of bread after work without staying up late.
If you start making bread often look at getting yeast in the jar or vacuum packed foil brick as it's far cheaper than packets.
-----------
Looking at my recipe linked above is rather amusing as it is rather different than what I am making now.
440 g water
6 g yeast
6 g salt
27 - 35 g sugars
660 g flour
- Thread starter
- #6
No oil?
M
Mr_Yan
Guest
no oil right now. Really for bread you just need flour, water, yeast, salt. The microbes and yeasts will convert flour to sugar but sugar speeds things up and changes the flavor. The oil will act as a preservative and give you a few more days before the loaf starts to turn green. When I am making bread and need to have it last a while I will substitute some oil for water at one to one.
As you start playing more there are a lot of things you can play with. One of the fun ones is a pre-ferment. Take some of the water and flour amount - say 30 to 50% by weight and about 80% hydration - and mix it several hours (8 to 12 hours) before making the bread. Some people will add a pinch of salt and pinch of yeast to the pre-ferment. This will result in a deeper almost nuttier flavor to the bread, closer to sour dough but not as strong.
If you like reading cookbooks pick up Jeffrey Hamelman's book Bread - A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes. He goes into what each ingredient and method does to the loaf, heck you're 87 pages into the book before any recipes are even presented.
As you start playing more there are a lot of things you can play with. One of the fun ones is a pre-ferment. Take some of the water and flour amount - say 30 to 50% by weight and about 80% hydration - and mix it several hours (8 to 12 hours) before making the bread. Some people will add a pinch of salt and pinch of yeast to the pre-ferment. This will result in a deeper almost nuttier flavor to the bread, closer to sour dough but not as strong.
If you like reading cookbooks pick up Jeffrey Hamelman's book Bread - A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes. He goes into what each ingredient and method does to the loaf, heck you're 87 pages into the book before any recipes are even presented.
- Thread starter
- #9
You may have to add a little flour to it as it looks a little wet from the picture. Hold off doing this will you de-gas it...
Weather (both temp & humidity) has some effect on the dough & as you gain experience, you learn to adjust to it. Keep posting pics as you go.
Weather (both temp & humidity) has some effect on the dough & as you gain experience, you learn to adjust to it. Keep posting pics as you go.
- Thread starter
- #11
Thanks @w_r_ranch, I just took this photo it's at about the 2 hour mark now.
When you move the bowl the center of the dough wiggles a decent amount. I haven't kneaded it yet. By the way that's a 4 qt bowl it's about to overspill out of.
When you move the bowl the center of the dough wiggles a decent amount. I haven't kneaded it yet. By the way that's a 4 qt bowl it's about to overspill out of.
I'd add another 1/3 cup of flour, it still looks wet... What kind of bread flour are you using?
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- Thread starter
- #14
Just added another 1/3 cup of flour. I'm using White Lily bread flour. Even after adding the flour it is still rather sticky. Maybe this is normal just not sure what to be expecting.
When I saw that you were going to make it this morning, I got a batch started as well so we should pretty much be at the same point. Here is my dough after de-gassing at the 2 hr mark. It should be firm & smooth.
M
Mr_Yan
Guest
@Mike Your's looks really wet and sticky. The dough I make is tacky but not sticky. Also the dough has a greater affinity for itself than for hands or tools. While it will stick to the mixer bowl after kneading it will come out in a single piece.
I think I'll join in on the fun and try a loaf of @w_r_ranch recipe.
I think I'll join in on the fun and try a loaf of @w_r_ranch recipe.
White :Lily is a pretty good flour from what I just read (I use King Arthur here). Both were tested to be 11.7% protein. I also saw that it "developed into a soft dough. Additionally, the crust was lighter and the crumb was whiter as compared to the standard". "Soft dough" leads me to believe it is somewhat sticky by nature & that it may be better to bake the loaves on a loaf pan (for support).
You can easily compensate for the lighter crust by bushing on an egg/water wash prior to baking, which will give the loaves a nice golden brown appearance.
Since the dough is real sticky, I would recommend that you generously flour your working surface just prior to forming your loaves (I use yellow cornmeal as I like a crunchy crust). I would also recommend applying some oil to your loaf pans & then dusting them well with additional flour (this will help prevent the loaves from sticking to the pan while baking).
Form your loaves slightly smaller than your pans are long & wide, being careful to fill them no more than half full as they will rise during proofing & baking (it's called oven bounce).
Form your loaves slightly smaller than your pans are long & wide, being careful to fill them no more than half full as they will rise during proofing & baking (it's called oven bounce).
M
Mr_Yan
Guest
So I jumped in, or tried to, and made a loaf too. Mine is in the oven now, along with a batch of muffins / cupcakes, and I'm making a pot of soup.
@w_r_ranch I think there is a miss print in your recipe linked above. I cut this one in half
4 c flour
2 T sugar
2 T olive oil
2 t yeast
2 t salt
2 c water
When I made this I was also weighing the ingredients and initially got
584 g flour
27 g sugar
22 g olive oil
6 g yeast
12 g salt
478 g water
This is a really high hydration bread - 85% - and will be very wet, shaggy, and sticky. 75% to 80% is about as high hydration as bread can be made at unless you're really skilled.
Anyway I kept adding flour until I got a consistency I liked and I ended with about 700 grams which is about 4.8 c flour.
I baked this in loaf pans and just pulled my bread out of the oven. I'll have pics posted soon but as I said I also have a pot of soup early in the cooking process.
@w_r_ranch I think there is a miss print in your recipe linked above. I cut this one in half
4 c flour
2 T sugar
2 T olive oil
2 t yeast
2 t salt
2 c water
When I made this I was also weighing the ingredients and initially got
584 g flour
27 g sugar
22 g olive oil
6 g yeast
12 g salt
478 g water
This is a really high hydration bread - 85% - and will be very wet, shaggy, and sticky. 75% to 80% is about as high hydration as bread can be made at unless you're really skilled.
Anyway I kept adding flour until I got a consistency I liked and I ended with about 700 grams which is about 4.8 c flour.
I baked this in loaf pans and just pulled my bread out of the oven. I'll have pics posted soon but as I said I also have a pot of soup early in the cooking process.
M
Mr_Yan
Guest
I shape the loaf and shove it in the pan and get half to two thirds full. I then let it rise until it is a little proud of the top of the loaf pan. I then get more rise from what is called "oven spring" which is when the ethanol and other VOC's volatilize off.
M
Mr_Yan
Guest
Here are the photos:
Probably drier than @w_r_ranch but notice how the ball is holding shape rather than being a shaggy wet mess
More of the same. Sticks to your hand but all the dough stays together when it leaves your hand.
In a greased bowl about to get a towel over it and put in the oven with the lamp on to rise.
Loaves oot of the oven, these went in about 1/2" above the loaf pan edge
Probably drier than @w_r_ranch but notice how the ball is holding shape rather than being a shaggy wet mess
More of the same. Sticks to your hand but all the dough stays together when it leaves your hand.
In a greased bowl about to get a towel over it and put in the oven with the lamp on to rise.
Loaves oot of the oven, these went in about 1/2" above the loaf pan edge