Recommend me a seed starting kit

[Mike]

In the past I've always grown in containers using starter plants from local nurses. Possibly to my demise I'm thinking about trying to start from seed completely and thus looking for recommendations on a good starter kit and light.

So far I've seen kits like the Planters Pride and Burpee Ultimate System, but wanted to get some recommendations before making an order and advice on a low power-usage light that I could setup in my garage to grow the seeds.

Thanks!

 

[Mr_Yan]

What scale are you thinking of? 20 plant starts, 50, 100? What do you plan on starting. A flat or two seems small when just sewing them but will quickly become a folding table full of 4" pots under 4' shop lights.

I've bought the flats with the clear dome - both with the disks you hydrate and the plastic 6 packs - and have had some luck with them. I bought one of the ones that wicks water up too and liked it but wished it was larger.

For germination heat is more important than light. After the plants are up light, temp, and humidity are all important but you can't forget about air flow too. Things like greens and tomatoes germinate really fast but peppers and eggplant can take a long time. Peppers and tomatoes will grow really slowly if too cool so keep them nice and warm. Without air flow fungus can become a problem and / or plants can get leggy and weak even with enough light. A small muffin fan blowing around the plants should be enough for a small setup.

I have found that I like to use a medium to large cooler or rubbermade tote with a 14 W CFL bulb in it as a heat source but the lid not on too tight. Once the plants are up open the lid and place a few CFL's over it in clamp light fixtures.

I also like starting plants in something that can go directly into the ground. I used peat pots and the disks for a long time. One year I rolled newspaper pots. Last year I bought a soil block maker. Two reasons for starting in something that you put in the ground with the plant: (1) no plastic to throw out / store / break / get in the way and (2) much less transplant shock from disturbing the roots. The down side to this is you will need to water more.

Another thing to think of is you need to "pot-up" the plants from the 6 pack germination cells. As the plant grows - say the second set of leafs on a tomato - the 6 pack is too small so you put that into something like a 4" pot.

Usually for lighting I use a combination of 4' shop lights and compact fluorescent bulbs. I hang the shop lights with chain from a hook to easily change the height. I was walking though farm and fleet and saw an LED shop light for about $15 similar to the big halogen lights you commonly see painters use. It had a really high lumen output and was in the 30 to 40 W range. I kind of wish I bought that one now. I did read in a few places about modern window films - the ones on Low E glass - filter out much of the red and blue in the visible spectrum which effectively starves plants of light. Don't think a sunny modern window will provide enough light.

My wife claims I wrote a novel...

 

[w_r_ranch]

2X on the peat pots. I've use them in the past with decent success, although they do have some drawbacks (costs, excessive water retention, etc).

For the past few years I use only 4" plastic pots that I fill with my own mixture. By using this size, I have no need to transplant & I don't disturb the root system, I also don't have to water them as often. After planting, I simply soak them for an hour in a bleach solution, rinse & put away till the next time.

 

[Mike]

@Mr_Yan thanks for that detailed reply, lots of good information.

At first I was planning on starting about 50 or so plants indoors then transplant outside, but...

I guess I should have planned this a little better than I did. Yesterday I started looking at what I plan on growing and their recommended growing methods and most if not all plants so far recommend direct sow. I know that's not to say I still couldn't start indoors.

All that said, for anyone else that might be looking for a good indoor starter kit. Is there anything on the market that you'd recommend for say 50-100 plants?

 

[Mr_Yan]

There's a lot of things that say direct sow that I start indoors anyway. I start my snap peas in 1 meter long lengths of gutter and slide them into the garden 2 or 3 weeks later - British idea that hasn't caught on in the US. Things like cucumbers and squash don't like transplanting so I start them in medium peat pots. The thing with peat pots is you need to rip the upper rim off it when you plant otherwise it can wick all the water away from your seedling.

I think getting seedlings going is a key for smaller gardens and lots of containers and succession planting to get more out of the small space. For large gardens it probably isn't worth the time. I bought a soil block maker like this one last year and it is a great little tool. With the help of a three year old I made and seeded over 150 starts in less than 90 minutes last year. Sure the tool is $35 but I was about to spend another $20 on peat pots and 6 pack cells. Now I can have another spinach plant with three or four leafs on it to put where I just pulled the first wave of spinach out of. Heck I can even start carrots in these without problems.

If you're set on using the plastic green house kits I'd either get the peat pot or compressed disk type. With this I'd get the 25 plant size and additional pots or disks. Look at the suggestions for starting dates and plan it. Cold weather things first - kale, broccoli, beets - then once they have a leaf or two move them to another tub (dish washing tubs work well). Start the tomatoes and basil - once those have emerged move them to another tub. After tomatoes are out start the long germination warm plants like peppers, egg plant, and tomatillos.

 

[majorcatfish]

lighting
2 years ago i replaced all the t-12 fixtures and installed 6 bulb t-5 high bay fixtures 131 of them in of the warehouses down at work.
after seeing how bright their are decided to purchase one and retired my 3 t-12 shop lights in our germination/ starter table here inside the house.

last year i could see instantly a big difference in the growth, healthier fuller plants, in past they looked good but leggy with the shop lights.
had my electric supply house do some research for me on the best bulb to use and they recommended.
spectralux they are a bit pricey 14.00 a bulb, but they sure beat the t-12 hands down.
t-5 bulb/ fixture
5000 lumens
6500 kelvin full spectrum
cri 85
1 6 bulb fixture 1.9 amps
t-12 bulb/ fixture
1600 lumens
3400 kelvin full spectrum
cri 89
3 double bulb 3.1 amps

germination
starter soil.....
definitely use a good quality soilless starter mix, been using miracle-gro seed starting mix for years no complaints here.
sorry to say peat pots are a waste of money....
heat..part one...
for optimal germination rate the soil should be a constant 65-75 degrees depending on the seed. in years past with the heat mats that we own found out even with the wire grate the soil was getting well over 90 degrees with a 80% germination rate, so added a couple half bricks which raised the trays a additional 1.5" was able to achieve a consistent 70 degrees and with a 98% germination rate.

of course while waiting for the seeds to sprout there is no reason to have the lights on, but once they start to emerge, they need light.

starter containers...
like previously mentioned peat pots are a waste of money imho, rather plant in 6 pack containers and start 2 seeds per cell, each tray will hold 12 6 packs for a total of 32 cells, once sprouted pick the healthiest and snip the other off.
at this point time to unplug the heat mat<s>, the heat from the lights and ballast will keep the area a consistent temperature.

containers part two....
once you have picked the better of the two and the second set of true leafs have developed time to start thinking about transplanting
from the starter cell to either a 3"-4" pot depending on what you have planted as sam and mr, yan mentioned earlier. and yes you need to take while transplanting i use a old butter knife and carefully go around the edges of the starter cell and then turn it over and that plant will slide out into your hand.
anytime you are transplanting have the new soil already moist, those seedling roots do not like to be exposed to the air for to long.. also once you have transplanted time to use popsicle sticks to label each pot so you know whats in each one.

heat part two....
as mentioned earlier between the lights and ballast will keep the area at a constant temperature depending on your set-up.
have the light timer to come on before i leave for work and will raise the cover for the day.

and when the lights go off will lower the cover and have a little heater set to keep the temperature though the night.and during the day will switch it from heat to just fan...

lighting part two
once your plants have sprouted you want to keep your light approximately 2-4 inches above the plants, my set up has the light fixture on jack chain so it can be raised or lowered as needed.
have a timer set for 12hrs


watering.....
have found that at this stage it's best to always to put the water into the bottom of the tray rather watering the top of the plant.
you have to learn how much is needed over time. keep them moist, but not drowning. it takes practice.

fertilizer......
during the first part of the seeds life it has all it needs to sprout, so no fertilizer is warranted!!!!!!
after the second set of true leafs you want to start them on fish emulsifier which is 5-1-1
for a week or two once you have transplanted to the larger containers, will switch to a plant food called super bloom which is 12-55-6 but not full strength.
if you use a high nitrogen fertilizer early on either you are going to burn the plant or your going to have a leggy plant.

air....
air movement is very important for a couple reasons 1. it helps to keep diseases/mold from establishing on your plants and on the soil 2. as the plants grow the flow of air over them strengthens the stem.
once the plants are well established will use a oscillating fan set on low during the day about 6 feet away from the plants.

hardening off.....
this is the most important in your seedlings life.......
once the weather is corporation for your planting zone, you need to slowly harden them off.
first day put the trays out for a hour then bring them back in, and increase the time every day for a week.

if your weather permits you can use a cold frame greenhouse, if not use that personal heater mention earlier to keep it 65 plus
till ready to plant.
heres what what we have been using the last couple years.

why spend 1000's of dollars if you are only starting veggies...keep it simple

now what i have mentioned works for me, and might not work for you but it's a great starter idea.
and by the way the seed starter table is 4x3

here is a photo of lasts years plants late march

 

[ErnieCopp]

I started out with the idea of starting my own seeds, but found for the few i needed i was not having as much fun as i did outdoors..
I also found that it does not hasten the harvest to plant too soon in this climate. I will plant some melons and squash direct this year, but not until the soil reaches fifty degrees. My soil crusts so is not good for starting seed, so i will put potting soil in the peat pots, remove the top rim like Yan said, as he is right about the wicking, and put the pots in the ground when i put the seeds in.

But i will wait until the soil warms up as last year the early plants did not mature any sooner than the later plants did. I will plant carrots, beets, kohlrabi and potatoes in containers and set them under drip emitters in the general garden. Automatic watering is a big time saver. Had excellent luck with peppers last year so will plant them again, too.

A friend may give me tomato plants again, but he was late last year, so i will buy plants as i only need 1 or 2 of each variety but want about six varieties.

Too damn much trouble giving produce away, and people do not really seem that enthusiastic or appreciative, so i am going to give each plant more room and not set out so many plants. Hopefully that will cut down on Mildew and such.

I do think my soil thermometer and long handled moisture meter are the most important tools in my garden.

Ernie

 

[Mike]

Well most everything I'm growing this year I can easily start from seed directly in the garden. However tomatoes are suggested to be sowed indoors first, my initial idea was to just buy some tomato plants from the local nursery or Home Depot/Lowes but after reading several threads about bugs and diseases I think I'm going to pass and try sowing indoors instead.

Planning on going to the nursey that is right down the road from where I work and see if they have a Seedling Heat Pad. I also want to pick up either a Jiffy seed starter green house or a Burpee self watering greenhouse.

 

[majorcatfish]

mike some people will just put their seed trays on top of the refrigerator which makes sense.
the top does stay a consist temp for germination once they spout the heat from the lamps/ballast will do.

was down at lowes this morning picked up some 10-10-10 and getting prices on t- stakes, goodness bonnie has raised their price on their veggies....

by the way home depot is a 4 letter word around here.....

 

[Mike]

@majorcatfish very clever idea. I like love saving money!

Why is Home Depot no good?

 

[w_r_ranch]

Everything has gone up. Read this morning that Food Prices Are Up 19% in '14. Much of it is the result of government meddling in things they have no knowledge of... for instance coal (most electrical power generation is based on coal) & nurseries us a lot of electricity. Same for natural gas... Costs of doing business are always passed on to the consumer. Look at the effects of 99.9% of of the government's ill-conceived laws/regulations & you'll see that everybody/everything is being squeezed. Even my vegetable seeds & garden-related expenses have had huge increases over the last few years (which is why I'm growing more 'heirlooms' this year - for next year's seeds).

Congress doesn't represent 'the people', they only represent themselves & the special interest groups that give them kickbacks. These fools don't even possess a basic understanding of economics, let alone microeconomics Sorry for the semi-political rant.

 

[majorcatfish]

@majorcatfish very clever idea. I like love saving money!

Why is Home Depot no good?

personal preference that's all.....plus i have the company lowes card.....

 

[Mike]

Congress doesn't represent 'the people', they only represent themselves & the special interest groups that give them kickbacks. These fools don't even possess a basic understanding of economics, let alone microeconomics Sorry for the semi-political rant.

Not trying to turn this into a political discussion, but I can certainly agree with you on that.

@majorcatfish understood. I have both a Lowes and Home Depot within a 2 miles of me so I do go to both but since Lowes has fired a longtime employee for chasing a thief I haven't shopped at Lowes as much. Not a boycott really nor much of an honest attempt to avoid them, just noticed I'm spending more at Home Depot now.

 

[whistech]

"Congress doesn't represent 'the people', they only represent themselves & the special interest groups that give them kickbacks. These fools don't even possess a basic understanding of economics, let alone microeconomics Sorry for the semi-political rant."

Amen Mr. Ranch, Amen!

 

[Mike]

Well my fridge must be one of those fancy ones because I just put my hand on top and it feels cool to the touch. Not warm like others I've seen.

I'm guessing I probably can't use this method now?

 

[Mr_Yan]

@Mike how many seed cells do you need to start? I have mine in a rubbermade tote with a 13 W CFL in there and it is sitting at 74 deg F. The 18 gallon tote has just enough room for a flat. I started my seeds last Saturday and now have basil up and the peppers are just starting to break the surface.

I use the tote as a germination incubator then move the seedlings to flats under 4' fluorescents.

 

[Mike]

@Mr_Yan - any chance you can post pictures of your setup?

This might work too, I'm only looking to do probably 5-6 plants.

 

[Mr_Yan]

@Mike sure I can toss pics up but it will have to wait until the weekend. I have terrible lighting in the room where I have them going so I doubt pics would turn out now. This will give me a reason to finally install the light fixtures that I bought two weeks ago. It's only been 4 years since I gutted that room and 3 years since the wood paneling and drywall went back up.

 

[Mr_Yan]

Here's how I start seeds for my garden:

I have a small garden and push it hard so I try to have a plant started as a seedling to replace a plant I just harvested. I was spending a lot on the little peat pots or expanding pellets/pucks so I splurged and bought a soil block maker (linked here) last year. Other than the block maker my system is rather cheap and basic.

For germination I use a plastic storage tote and a low wattage light bulb in a shop clamp fixture to heat the box a little.

Box with a 1/2 flat and two small trays which were the plastic box mushrooms came in. I bought the 1/2 flat with the felt wicking pad to make watering easier. I also have a cheap thermometer in there which is reading about 76 F when I open the box.

These are starts for leeks, shallots, broccoli, and marigolds that I have set on top of the storage box.

In these pics I have my first round of plants started. Because I have so many like plants starting (four types of peppers, ground cherries, egg plant, leeks and shallots) I have made little tooth pick flags to identify them.

It was a week ago that we seeded these and I had a bad bulb in there for the first two days but I now have basil, some peppers, eggplants, and shallots emerging. Soon (tomorrow) I will move the germinated plants out of this box and under a florescent shop light hanging from chains. I'd like to keep the tomatoes, peppers, basil, and eggplants and the like much warmer and in a higher humidity than the room I have these in so this year I will build some box or tent to hold the seedlings and shop lamp along with a heater lamp. I'm also thinking about using some old storm windows to build a cold frame that fits into my raised bed.

 

[Mike]

Thanks @Mr_Yan, simple yet seems very effective. I'm sure even my peppers would love this setup and for my small garden it would probably be perfect. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Mr_Yan]

I only use the tote with a single low wattage bulb as my "germination incubator" once the seedlings bread the surface I move them out and under a florescent shop light. The 13 or 14 W CFL does not really put out enough light for my needs and size. If you were to have a few bulbs in there I am sure you could grow about a dozen starts.

I'm really liking the looks of @majorcatfish 's lighting setup so I kind of copied it for use with my stuff. I already had eye-screws in the ceiling where I hung a shop light with chains over a folding table last year. Last year I draped a blanket over the whole thing and used clamps to hold it away from the light. The blanket was cumbersome and annoying if not dangerous.

Today I taped aluminum foil to some sheets of corrugated cardboard and I have the cardboard tented over the light.

Right now the light is 4" to 6" above the soil line of the plant starts. I had the chain pulled up on S hooks a little so you can better see what is going on. The light I have is a typical 4' double T12 fixture and it's old. Not optimal but it's what I have.

I should get a light timer up there soon. I typically run the light 14 hours on / 10 hours off daily.

 

[majorcatfish]

Yup timer for the lights are a must

 

[Mike]

First year wanting to start from seed and it looks like I'm already very much late, but going to run by Lowes tonight and get a rubber tote, light clamp, and 60w full spectrum CFL. Running behind on schedule but hopefully they will still work out.

 

[majorcatfish]

First year wanting to start from seed

after this year starting your our seeds... you will get hooked <it's like a addiction>

 

[majorcatfish]

First year wanting to start from seed and it looks like I'm already very much late, but going to run by Lowes tonight and get a rubber tote, light clamp, and 60w full spectrum CFL. Running behind on schedule but hopefully they will still work out.

mike just wondering whats the cri<color rendering index> on that full spectrum cfl??